Planting Preparation

[emilbrett 0]

Hi Community,

 

I had a wonderful opportunity to hear Janet speak at a recent Master Gardeners Class and she mentioned using the forum here as a way to get advice.

 

I have zero gardening experience and bought a foreclosed house that has several established beds already designed, but are full of weeds and no established flowers, trees, shrubs. etc. I attached a picture of the bed, outlined in rocks.

 

 

I have two questions:

 

1. I want to prepare the bed by clearing out any "weeds." I am considering using the clear plastic method. I would cover the ground inside the bed with a clear plastic. How would it take for this method to kill the weeds so I can then plan flowers, shrubs, etc.?

 

2. I want to prevent the grass from slowly creeping between the rocks and entering the bed. I plan on mulching the bed after I established the bed with the plants I want. In addition to the existing rock outline, is there another border I could establish to prevent the grass from entering?

 

Thank you for your help!

 

Brett

[Guest dcsmith796]

The name Guest_dcsmith796 had to be retired

because of a program glitch. (Dang it!)

See his more recent posts as DSmith74.

- Janet & Steven, Forum Administration -

Actually, if you're going to mulch anyway, laying down some cardboard or newspaper as a barrier, then mulching over the top of it is easier than solarizing (although that could just be my lack of talent at solarizing talking here). That center area doesn't look too weedy, so you could probably even risk popping in a few plants there right away if you want. Keep an eye on them to make sure weeds and grass aren't sneaking up next to them through their openings in the barrier though.

 

Leave the outer, weedy/grassy part of the beds to rest for a year. You will need to run the barrier and mulch under where the rocks are, and replace the rocks back on top, otherwise the area between the stones will act as a hideout for the grass and weeds, from which they can launch colonization forays back into the bed later on.

 

I'm way to cheap to spring for good, metal edging I change the beds too often to use good, metal edging. I always use "English edging" at my house, which is just a trench cut along the edge of the bed. It takes little effort to create, and usually one spin around the yard with a half-moon edger in the spring is all it takes to keep the bluegrass where it belongs. OK maybe a touch up in August here and there. Of course I live on a little 40x110 lot with a deck and two car garage. Your mileage may vary as they say.

 

Metal edging does make a nice, neat, largely maintenance-free edge if you can swing it. Especially if you get the good, deep, pro-grade stuff and secure it properly. I've seen so much of that 4" or whatever homeowner-grade big box store plastic edging heaved out of the ground to trust it myself, but maybe that was just improper installation? The pros on here can probably weigh in on that with more authority on the best type and source.

[emilbrett 0]

That middle area was right where a tree was removed and the stump was ground, so thats why I don't think any weeds really took hold there. Hmmm, I will have to look into the "English edging." I bought some of that plastic edging and will try it out for now. If it heaves, then I can get another solution.

 

I kinda took your advice and went with a black plastic option to act as a barrier instead of trying to solarize with clear plastic. I am hoping that by spraying Round Up, covering with black pastic until Early May, and then tilling, I will be ready to plant.

[carolm 1]

The black plastic pound-in edging always worked for me. Just have to tap them back in every spring after a winter of frost heaves.

[Guest dcsmith796]

Well, I think you're on the right track, but spraying with Roundup then covering with plastic might be counterproductive. Roundup messes up plant metabolism, so it works best when they are metabolizing a lot, which means when they are growing. Cover them up and you largely shut down their metabolism. Some of the uglier weeds can be covered up for a month and still spring back with no problem, and during that time the Roundup will break down. You will probably still have a few weeds pop up - those that may not have germinated by mid-may like purslane or crab grass. A pre-emergent herbicide may help with those.

 

By the way, if you're using a sprayer to put down that Roundup, you can save a few bucks buying store-brand concentrated glyphosate (I usually use Meijer brand) with a few drops of Dawn mixed in as a sticker-spreader.

 

You can till if you want, but the idea of tilling where a large tree was growing doesn't sound like fun. I worry those remaining roots will be a big pain in the neck (back, shoulders, thighs...). I've actually never tilled a new bed. Unless you're mixing in amendments or trying to change soil consistency (severly compacted, for example), deep tilling seems to be kinda falling out of favor both in ornamental/gardening and big agriculture circles.

[Janet Macunovich 32]

You do know that Roundup won't work until whatever weeds are there show their heads, right? It's primary action happens when it's absorbed through leaf surface and translocated to the root where it blocks starch use, starves the root and thus kills the plant. Spraying it where there is no leaf is not effective, although it can then build up in organic matter in the soil and get into the roots of non-target plants when heavy rains leach it out.

 

We like to put containers, temporarily, in places like this where we aren't sure if truly nasty weeds like bindweed are established. The layered newspaper (or yard waste bags) or cardboard covered by mulch can gradually kill what's below.

 

(Sometimes I feel like the voice of doom, and I don't mean to. But a house that was foreclosed very likely had neglected landscape, and running weeds do become established there. We like to be practical, and eliminate long term weed problems before we plant.)

 

Or we dig to look for what roots are there. Quack grass, thistle and bindweed roots are pretty distinctive so you can tell weeks before they emerge, that they're there. Even if you're new to gardening, if you dig there and look at any roots you dig up, you will recognize shoots developing on them or already sprouting and heading up. When you see those, you know that space is already occupied and not to plant permanent plants there without first removing all that root and placing a barrier adequate to separate that bed from any colony of runing roots that extends under the lawn. Digging tells you how deep an trenched edge of root barrier you need. 4-5" deep edging is nowhere near able to stop quack grass or thistle that you find running horizontally at a greater depth.

 

When we need a rock edge for looks, we move the rocks INSIDE the edge by at least a few inches, and keep the outer inches clear and mulched. Keeping grass out of rocks is otherwise the chore from Hades.

[emilbrett 0]

On the Roundup, I did spray it only on the weeds that have already shown themselves, which are plenty. The beds are already covered with weeds.

 

Thanks for the tip on the Meijer brand, I will do that next time! How long do you find you need to cover the bed with the newspaper, cardboard, etc. before you feel comfortable planting?

 

Great tip on the rock edge, because it really is just for looks.

 

I moved forward already by spraying the round up on any weeds that I saw and covered the bed with a black plastic.

[Guest dcsmith796]

The trouble with the glyphosate followed by plastic is in order for the herbicide to work the weeds not only have to be showing, they have to be GROWING. Like most complex, multicelled organisms, plants have a circulatory system. The reason glyphosate works is because you can spray it on the leaves, and that circulatory system will take it to the roots and kill the roots. Once you put the plastic on, the plant loses its main power supply and most of that metabolism, including transfer of chemicals from leaf to root, comes to a stop. Most weeds will still die under the plastic, but from smothering, not from the herbicide.

 

When I smother, I try to have the mulch down by 4th of July. If so, I figure it's safe to plant the next spring, assuming I see no weed growth. I will admit - more than once I have laid the mulch on a little thin, or not overlapped the paper enough, and had to hit some spots with another round of barrier and mulch.

 

I find if you are in a hurry and just want to get a few larger items in (like getting a year head start on backbone shrubs) you can cheat. You just pull back the mulch about a foot or so further back than the size of the hole you plan to dig. Then just strip the sod like you would if you weren't smothering. Then plant, replacing the barrier and mulch to the edge of the planting hole, then mulch only (or nothing at all) in the water tray. It's a lot of work though, and hard to do for stuff close together, so not worth it for perennials.

 

One more thing, and this is only my opinion, but if you were planning to mulch over that plastic you will learn a lesson you will never forget. For an even more valuable lesson, cover it with pea gravel or lava rock.

[Guest dcsmith796]

Oh yikes hey I just looked at that pic again. If you want to keep that shrub that plastic is WAY to tight around its base. You have blocked water from the entire root zone, not to mention the heat buildup under that plastic — great for killing weeds, but just as effective on shrubs! You want that uncovered at least as wide as the branches reach. If it's really weedy under it use a couple of inches of mulch on bare ground, or a permeable barrier and mulch. Be careful though. Last year I did a great job mulching to death a (quite expensive) Korean spruce with just newspaper and pine needle mulch. If it shows the least bit of water stress take action immediately.

[Cricket 7]

A soil edge is another idea to keep bed edge and grass separated. Place rocks in a pleasing design, not necessary to being touching. Sink a spade straight down on the outside of each rock and pull back just enough to create a trough between bed and lawn. Edge entire bed in this manner. If I have leftover mulch or shredded leaves I put a layer in the bottom of the trough.

 

What a treasure to have a ready supply of landscape rocks. I'm forever hauling "two at a time' home.

[Guest dcsmith796]

Oops - I just reread your original post and I see you're going to solarize until mid-May not pile mulch on top of that black plastic for the whole summer. No problem there. I'll be interested to see your results. I think you were planning annuals? If so, that's good. If it works, we've learned something. If not, you can always try another method without having to move/replace a bunch of pricey perennials.

 

I'd still be tempted to pull the plastic back from that shrub though. But then I'm a worrier. Depending on when it tries to leaf out, it may not even notice. But if it breaks bud, I think it's going to want water.

[emilbrett 0]

In reflection, I might have let the glyphossate work for a week before I covered the beds with the black plastic. Ah well, next time!

 

Good call on the tree. You are just seeing the bottom of the branches and a fuller picture will show a small tree about 12" tall. I will take back that black plastic a little.

 

Cricket, thanks for that tip on the bedding edge. I was lucky to inherit all of those rocks when I bought the house. I actually have about 2 more wheelbarrows of rocks like that, just waiting to be used.

 

dcsmith, I was going to plant perenials in those beds. For this year, I will only buy a few perennials and let them grow in. This way if I made a mistake I didn't buy the entire bed's worth of perennials.

 

The buds are already opening, so I will push back the plastic today.

[Guest dcsmith796]

Well, if it doesn't work the worst that could happen is you have to lift them out to fix them, but it probably won't come to that if you keep an eye on things and zap anything that makes a move on the perennials. Go buy a Japanese hand weeder (sometimes called a hand hoe) to carry in a threatening manner on your evening constitutionals. Not sure where to get a good one anymore - mine was from Smith and Hawken before it became the mid-grade Chinese tool brand at Target. I now guard it more closely than my iPhone.